Usenet users

[Dave "Crash" Dummy]

I ran across this tip in another newsgroup.

<quote>
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
</quote>

[Mayayana]

This same issue came up in the home repair group
recently. I came up with a generic response to people
who answer old posts, in hopes that some might end
up learning what Usenet is. I figure it's a problem for all
of us: People using Google who don't know about Usenet
are missing out, thinking that they've come across some
kind of current web forum. At the same time, we have
to put up with their pointless, out-of-context posts.

One of the people in the home repair group got very
worked up. He took offense, having some sort of emotional
relationship with Google Groups. I'm not sure what the issue
was. As near as I can gather, even people who know how
to use Usenet properly through Google Groups have an odd
idea that NNTP is old-fashioned and limited. They think the
webpage forum format is more modern, and they're more
worried about the "spread" of newsreaders than they are
about GG people who post willy nilly with no comprehension
of Usenet. I think the upset man on the home repair group
actually thought I was trying to push a historical fetish. :)

It's an awkward problem, and the Googlites don't seem
to care what they screw up as long as they get to show
another ad. I'd be tempted to block GG if I had that ability.
(I'm using OE.) But the problem with blocking anything is
that partial threads will show up, creating even more
confusion. You might not see the GG post responding to a
post from 2007, but you will see the post of the person who
responded to that.

To my mind things like the "Usenet Improvement Project" do
more harm than good. They're addressing a real problem, but
they're addressing it like snide teenagers, with namecalling and
blame. If there's any blame it's Google's.

"Dave "Crash" Dummy" <***@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:lobjcf$dau$***@dont-email.me...
|I ran across this tip in another newsgroup.
|
| <quote>
| Killing all posts from Google Groups
| The Usenet Improvement Project:
| http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
| </quote>
|

[Dave "Crash" Dummy]

Mayayana wrote:

<snipped for brevity>

It's an awkward problem, and the Googlites don't seem to care what
they screw up as long as they get to show another ad. I'd be tempted
to block GG if I had that ability. (I'm using OE.) But the problem
with blocking anything is that partial threads will show up, creating
even more confusion. You might not see the GG post responding to a
post from 2007, but you will see the post of the person who responded
to that.

I only filter posts with my eyeballs, for the same reason. I only visit
a few specialized public NG's, like this one, so it is not really a
burden, but the Google posts are still annoying.

To my mind things like the "Usenet Improvement Project" do more harm
than good. They're addressing a real problem, but they're addressing
it like snide teenagers, with namecalling and blame. If there's any
blame it's Google's.

I don't much go for the name calling, either. I only posted the link
because it contains information on how those with newsreaders with
limited filtering (like OE and TBird) can block GG, if so desired.

[R.Wieser]

Post by Mayayana
I'd be tempted to block GG if I had that ability.
(I'm using OE.)

OE (at least my (quite old) version of it) has the ability to set "rules"
and "actions" that can be linked to email as well as newsgroup messages
(extra -> message rules).

One of the things you can do is to mark a message as "ignored", which you
than can than make visible by adding the "display/ignore" column to the
messagelist (rightclick one of the listviews headers, for example the
"subject" header).

I've set quite a few rules, like setting a "display" status for message
coming from myself, as well as for any responses to it. It makes it quite
hard to miss any. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


-- Origional message

Post by Mayayana
This same issue came up in the home repair group
recently. I came up with a generic response to people
who answer old posts, in hopes that some might end
up learning what Usenet is. I figure it's a problem for all
of us: People using Google who don't know about Usenet
are missing out, thinking that they've come across some
kind of current web forum. At the same time, we have
to put up with their pointless, out-of-context posts.
One of the people in the home repair group got very
worked up. He took offense, having some sort of emotional
relationship with Google Groups. I'm not sure what the issue
was. As near as I can gather, even people who know how
to use Usenet properly through Google Groups have an odd
idea that NNTP is old-fashioned and limited. They think the
webpage forum format is more modern, and they're more
worried about the "spread" of newsreaders than they are
about GG people who post willy nilly with no comprehension
of Usenet. I think the upset man on the home repair group
actually thought I was trying to push a historical fetish. :)
It's an awkward problem, and the Googlites don't seem
to care what they screw up as long as they get to show
another ad. I'd be tempted to block GG if I had that ability.
(I'm using OE.) But the problem with blocking anything is
that partial threads will show up, creating even more
confusion. You might not see the GG post responding to a
post from 2007, but you will see the post of the person who
responded to that.
To my mind things like the "Usenet Improvement Project" do
more harm than good. They're addressing a real problem, but
they're addressing it like snide teenagers, with namecalling and
blame. If there's any blame it's Google's.
|I ran across this tip in another newsgroup.
|
| <quote>
| Killing all posts from Google Groups
| http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
| </quote>
|

[Mayayana]

|> I'd be tempted to block GG if I had that ability.
| > (I'm using OE.)
|
| OE (at least my (quite old) version of it) has the ability to set "rules"
| and "actions" that can be linked to email as well as newsgroup messages
| (extra -> message rules).
|

Ah! Thanks. I'm not sure I'll use them, but it's
good to know they're there. I use email message
rules to auto-delete from some sources, but I
just never noticed that there were also newsgroup
message rules.

[Todd Vargo]

Post by Mayayana
|> I'd be tempted to block GG if I had that ability.
| > (I'm using OE.)
|
| OE (at least my (quite old) version of it) has the ability to set "rules"
| and "actions" that can be linked to email as well as newsgroup messages
| (extra -> message rules).
|
Ah! Thanks. I'm not sure I'll use them, but it's
good to know they're there. I use email message
rules to auto-delete from some sources, but I
just never noticed that there were also newsgroup
message rules.

I have TB set to display gg posts in a different color. IIRC, OE had
similar ability. I do this so I see who all of the gg posters are and I
think twice before responding to what may appear to be a time sink. As
you may already know with technical groups, gg posters seldom provide
sufficient detail when asking for help or information and they rarely
respond with appropriate information when asked to provide it, if they
even bother to post back at all.

[Dave "Crash" Dummy]

Post by Todd Vargo

|> I'd be tempted to block GG if I had that ability. | > (I'm using
OE.) | | OE (at least my (quite old) version of it) has the ability
to set "rules" | and "actions" that can be linked to email as well
as newsgroup messages | (extra -> message rules). |
Ah! Thanks. I'm not sure I'll use them, but it's good to know
they're there. I use email message rules to auto-delete from some
sources, but I just never noticed that there were also newsgroup
message rules.

I have TB set to display gg posts in a different color. IIRC, OE had
similar ability. I do this so I see who all of the gg posters are
and I think twice before responding to what may appear to be a time
sink. As you may already know with technical groups, gg posters
seldom provide sufficient detail when asking for help or information
and they rarely respond with appropriate information when asked to
provide it, if they even bother to post back at all.

How do you identify the GG posts? As noted, a sender with a gmail
address is not necessarily a Google Grouper.

[Mayayana]

| How do you identify the GG posts? As noted, a sender with a gmail
| address is not necessarily a Google Grouper.

Good question. I don't see any way to make rules
based on source in OE, though if I did I think it'd
be adequate to make a rule based on *@gmail.com.
It's very unlikely anyone would post that way except
through GG.

On the other hand, I still don't see any real
benefit. I find the simple treeview of OE to be
very serviceable in general. I don't want to
complicate things with colors or flags. And some
people posting from GG are posting normally. They
understand Usenet but just choose, for some reason,
to use GG as a reader.

[Evertjan.]

Post by Mayayana
| How do you identify the GG posts? As noted, a sender with a gmail
| address is not necessarily a Google Grouper.
Good question. I don't see any way to make rules
based on source in OE, though if I did I think it'd
It's very unlikely anyone would post that way except
through GG.
On the other hand, I still don't see any real
benefit. I find the simple treeview of OE to be
very serviceable in general. I don't want to
complicate things with colors or flags. And some
people posting from GG are posting normally. They
understand Usenet but just choose, for some reason,
to use GG as a reader.

I use these on XNEWS for comp.lang.javascript
where the score knockdown point is 1000,
the match code is regex and ~ means not:

[comp.lang.javascript]
Score:: -9998
Message-ID: \.googlegroups\.com>$

[comp.lang.javascript]
Score:: 5
Subject: Re:

[comp.lang.javascript]
Score:: -5
~Text: wrote

[Dave "Crash" Dummy]

Post by Evertjan.

Post by Mayayana
| How do you identify the GG posts? As noted, a sender with a gmail
| address is not necessarily a Google Grouper.
Good question. I don't see any way to make rules
based on source in OE, though if I did I think it'd
It's very unlikely anyone would post that way except
through GG.
On the other hand, I still don't see any real
benefit. I find the simple treeview of OE to be
very serviceable in general. I don't want to
complicate things with colors or flags. And some
people posting from GG are posting normally. They
understand Usenet but just choose, for some reason,
to use GG as a reader.

I use these on XNEWS for comp.lang.javascript
where the score knockdown point is 1000,
[comp.lang.javascript]
Score:: -9998
Message-ID: \.googlegroups\.com>$
[comp.lang.javascript]
Score:: 5
[comp.lang.javascript]
Score:: -5

The problem being that Mayayana uses Outlook Express and Todd
and I use Thunderbird and neither one filters the "Message ID" header.

[Evertjan.]

Post by Dave "Crash" Dummy

Post by Evertjan.

Post by Mayayana
| How do you identify the GG posts? As noted, a sender with a gmail
| address is not necessarily a Google Grouper.
Good question. I don't see any way to make rules
based on source in OE, though if I did I think it'd
It's very unlikely anyone would post that way except
through GG.
On the other hand, I still don't see any real
benefit. I find the simple treeview of OE to be
very serviceable in general. I don't want to
complicate things with colors or flags. And some
people posting from GG are posting normally. They
understand Usenet but just choose, for some reason,
to use GG as a reader.

I use these on XNEWS for comp.lang.javascript
where the score knockdown point is 1000,
[comp.lang.javascript]
Score:: -9998
Message-ID: \.googlegroups\.com>$
[comp.lang.javascript]
Score:: 5
[comp.lang.javascript]
Score:: -5

The problem being that Mayayana uses Outlook Express and Todd
and I use Thunderbird and neither one filters the "Message ID" header.

It is never to late to change to a dedicated newsreader.

[Todd Vargo]

Post by Dave "Crash" Dummy
The problem being that Mayayana uses Outlook Express and Todd
and I use Thunderbird and neither one filters the "Message ID" header.

Perhaps you are using and older version of TB. I have been filtering
Message-ID since version 10 or 12. Current version is 24.

[Dave "Crash" Dummy]

Post by Todd Vargo

The problem being that Mayayana uses Outlook Express and Todd and I
use Thunderbird and neither one filters the "Message ID" header.

Perhaps you are using and older version of TB. I have been filtering
Message-ID since version 10 or 12. Current version is 24.

Yes. TB 2 was good enough for my grandfather,
and it's good enough for me! :-)

[Evertjan.]

Post by Dave "Crash" Dummy

Post by Todd Vargo

The problem being that Mayayana uses Outlook Express and Todd and I
use Thunderbird and neither one filters the "Message ID" header.

Perhaps you are using and older version of TB. I have been filtering
Message-ID since version 10 or 12. Current version is 24.

Yes. TB 2 was good enough for my grandfather,
and it's good enough for me! :-)

TB or not TB, that's the Q.

[Todd Vargo]

Post by Mayayana
| How do you identify the GG posts? As noted, a sender with a gmail
| address is not necessarily a Google Grouper.
Good question. I don't see any way to make rules
based on source in OE, though if I did I think it'd
It's very unlikely anyone would post that way except
through GG.
On the other hand, I still don't see any real
benefit. I find the simple treeview of OE to be
very serviceable in general. I don't want to
complicate things with colors or flags. And some
people posting from GG are posting normally. They
understand Usenet but just choose, for some reason,
to use GG as a reader.

I have been using TB for the past several years which allows me to
filter by Message-ID. IIRC, way back (before gmail), when gg users
created an gg account, they got a gg email which made them obvious.
Sorry I don't have a better solution for you OE users.

[Mayayana]

| Sorry I don't have a better solution for you OE users.
|

That's OK. I'm very happy with OE. And now that
I'm reminded that I can't use RegExp with OE, I'm
even more happy with it. :)

[GS]

Post by Mayayana

Post by R.Wieser

Post by Mayayana
I'd be tempted to block GG if I had that ability.
(I'm using OE.)

OE (at least my (quite old) version of it) has the ability to set
"rules" and "actions" that can be linked to email as well as
newsgroup messages (extra -> message rules).

Ah! Thanks. I'm not sure I'll use them, but it's
good to know they're there. I use email message
rules to auto-delete from some sources, but I
just never noticed that there were also newsgroup
message rules.

I agree with Todd about using colors to 'flag' messages. I don't use
Tbird anymore after switching to MesNews, but this app plays a sound
whenever threads I'm following or actively posting in get new mwssages.
I might, though, resume using Tbird so I only have 1 app open and won't
have to bounce back-n-forth!<g>

[GS]

Post by GS
I might, though, resume using Tbird so I only have 1 app open and
won't have to bounce back-n-forth!<g>

Just tried a few days of using Tbird and there's no way it's a better
alternative than MesNews, IMO!

[Todd Vargo]

Post by GS

Post by GS
I might, though, resume using Tbird so I only have 1 app open and
won't have to bounce back-n-forth!<g>

Just tried a few days of using Tbird and there's no way it's a better
alternative than MesNews, IMO!

Can you quantify your statement? What is "better" that you want others
to be aware of?

[GS]

Post by Todd Vargo

Post by GS

Post by GS
I might, though, resume using Tbird so I only have 1 app open and
won't have to bounce back-n-forth!<g>

Just tried a few days of using Tbird and there's no way it's a better
alternative than MesNews, IMO!

Can you quantify your statement? What is "better" that you want
others to be aware of?

The key word in that statement is "IMO"!

MesNews is a dedicated news reader app, and so has been configured
specific to that.

Tbird has this capability (as do most mail apps I've used) but its
implemenation is not very intuitive and/or user-friendly, especially
setting up NG accounts. (IMO) It does have some very attractive
features. That's worth something in terms of advantages over other
apps. I guess the biggest turnoff for me was the hoops I had to jump
through to get eternal-september to work.

I'm a diehard Tbird fan for a mail app and so I haven't completely
written off using it as my news reader too! This latest version is
definitely better than what I was running prior to switching to
MesNews!

[GS]

Post by Todd Vargo

Post by GS

Post by GS
I might, though, resume using Tbird so I only have 1 app open and
won't have to bounce back-n-forth!<g>

Just tried a few days of using Tbird and there's no way it's a better
alternative than MesNews, IMO!

Can you quantify your statement? What is "better" that you want
others to be aware of?

I'm following this NG in Tbird but it didn't post my reply so I replied
via MesNews. Any ideas how to fix that?

[GS]

Post by GS
I'm following this NG in Tbird but it didn't post my reply so I
replied via MesNews. Any ideas how to fix that?

This arrived in Tbird 1 hour after I sent it. It arrived in MesNews
just seconds after I sent it! Kinda discourages me from using Tbird for
newsgroups...

[GS]

Post by GS
I'm following this NG in Tbird but it didn't post my reply so I
replied via MesNews. Any ideas how to fix that?

This arrived in Tbird 1 hour after I sent it. It arrived in MesNews just
seconds after I sent it! Kinda discourages me from using Tbird for
newsgroups...

Seems it's working better now! Not sure what the delay was before,
though Tbird did crash during NG setup.

[GS]

Post by GS

Post by GS
I'm following this NG in Tbird but it didn't post my reply so I
replied via MesNews. Any ideas how to fix that?

This arrived in Tbird 1 hour after I sent it. It arrived in MesNews just
seconds after I sent it! Kinda discourages me from using Tbird for
newsgroups...

Seems it's working better now! Not sure what the delay was before,
though Tbird did crash during NG setup.

Maybe I spoke too soon!

[GS]

Post by GS

Post by GS

Post by GS
I'm following this NG in Tbird but it didn't post my reply so I
replied via MesNews. Any ideas how to fix that?

This arrived in Tbird 1 hour after I sent it. It arrived in MesNews just
seconds after I sent it! Kinda discourages me from using Tbird for
newsgroups...

Seems it's working better now! Not sure what the delay was before,
though Tbird did crash during NG setup.

Maybe I spoke too soon!

Since the crash/restart everything seems to be working properly. Weird,
but enough incentive to continue using Tbird a while longer!

[Todd Vargo]

Post by GS

Post by GS
I'm following this NG in Tbird but it didn't post my reply so I
replied via MesNews. Any ideas how to fix that?

This arrived in Tbird 1 hour after I sent it. It arrived in MesNews just
seconds after I sent it! Kinda discourages me from using Tbird for
newsgroups...

Seems it's working better now! Not sure what the delay was before,
though Tbird did crash during NG setup.

The problem could be just about anything from a poor internet connection
to failing ram. Lets not forget about that behavior randomizer that
Microsoft introduced with XP that seems to correct itself after a
reboot. <shrug>

[Todd Vargo]

Post by Todd Vargo

Post by GS

Post by GS
I'm following this NG in Tbird but it didn't post my reply so I
replied via MesNews. Any ideas how to fix that?

This arrived in Tbird 1 hour after I sent it. It arrived in MesNews just
seconds after I sent it! Kinda discourages me from using Tbird for
newsgroups...

Seems it's working better now! Not sure what the delay was before,
though Tbird did crash during NG setup.

The problem could be just about anything from a poor internet connection
to failing ram. Lets not forget about that behavior randomizer that
Microsoft introduced with XP that seems to correct itself after a
reboot. <shrug>

This was posted instantly and available via a different server just as
speedy using TB.

[GS]

Post by Todd Vargo
This was posted instantly and available via a different server just as
speedy using TB.

I'm getting the same behavior since Tbird restarted!

[GS]

Post by Todd Vargo

Post by GS

Post by GS
I'm following this NG in Tbird but it didn't post my reply so I
replied via MesNews. Any ideas how to fix that?

This arrived in Tbird 1 hour after I sent it. It arrived in MesNews just
seconds after I sent it! Kinda discourages me from using Tbird for
newsgroups...

Seems it's working better now! Not sure what the delay was before,
though Tbird did crash during NG setup.

The problem could be just about anything from a poor internet connection
to failing ram. Lets not forget about that behavior randomizer that
Microsoft introduced with XP that seems to correct itself after a
reboot. <shrug>

Well I agree with you about the RAM issue! My internet connection is
excellent and blazingly fast! This machine is Win7 Pro x64 but I didn't
reboot after Tbird crashed; just restarted Tbird!